exclusive report
Ophélie Bretnacher Mystery Deepens as Other Attacks on Foreign Students Come to Light
Over the past several days, numerous emails have come in to this and other websites of the All Hungary group concerning the case of Ophélie Bretnacher, a French exchange student who disappeared last week in Budapest. Unfortunately, we cannot offer any new information on Ophélie's case in particular (for an update on the search for her by the Hungarian police, click here.) But even more unfortunately, we have since been informed of two similar cases involving female exchange students in Budapest. Taken together, they raise the question of whether a single predator is serially targeting young foreign women without the police taking note - or whether Budapest is a far more dangerous city than many expatriates and visitors may have suspected. It is hard to say which is more chilling.
The additional two cases were brought to our attention by an executive of a company that manages numerous properties in Budapest, many of which are let out to young foreigners.
One took place late last Saturday night/early Sunday morning, and involved a young American student who was badly beaten and sexually assaulted in a park in District IX, while walking home, like Ophélie, from a party. The other case, which the executive learned of through a university liaison offer, also involved a female student from the United States who was sexually assaulted near the city center, within "recent weeks."
We contacted the National Police, who confirmed that an assault matching the first case had been reported, and that the victim had been treated in a local hospital. While the police were unable to confirm the second case, the executive who brought the crime to our attention said he was informed by the university official that a suspect had been picked up for questioning relating to the crime, and apparently released.
[UPDATE: hvg.hu is now reporting details of the District IX attack, saying that the woman was taken to the local police precinct with injuries so severe she could not be questioned, and was almost "unrecognizable" to her friends.]
[UPDATE II: Earlier today (12/12) the police offered more details on the Bretnacher case.]
[UPDATE (III): This afternoon (12/12) index.hu reported that four men have been questioned who "can be connected to the crime" involving the American assaulted in District IX, though none has yet been named as an official suspect. Police have also questioned taxi and bus drivers and watched footage of area surveillance cameras, and say they are awaiting results of DNA and other tests.]
"Something is Going On"
Meanwhile, one recently-arrived Canadian expatriate last night said she knew of at least two cases in recent days of women being attacked in District VI by assailants who would have first overheard them speaking English. This person also said that she had recently moved from her previous flat near the Budapest Sportarena after a terrifying incident in which two men demanded that she get in the car with her. "Something is going on," said this woman, who has in the past conducted research for a service which rates the safety of European cities for young travelers.
The property executive said he similarly believes that there has recently been an increase in crimes against property and persons. "We have 50 apartments, and there have been break-ins or attempted break-ins at four within the last two months," he said. "I don't know if it's growing desperation [due to the economic situation] but it just feels to me that there is a lot more crime out there." This executive said that he had begun to urge his foreign clients to be more careful when going out, and for young women not to go out alone late at night.
Violent and Unruly
As for how these assumptions tally with the known fact, the answer is that the numbers are unclear at best. Statistically, Budapest remains a relatively safe city, with only 370.5 "violent and unruly" (erőszakos és garázda) crimes reported per 100,000 people, or less than half that of Los Angeles. But unlike crimes against property, the official numbers show crimes against people on the rise.
During the first eight months of 2008, there were 12,260 reported cases of crimes against people (személy elleni) in Budapest, compared to 11,488 in 2007 and 10,688 in 2008. Oddly, however, this category of crime - which includes murder and kidnapping - does not include rape, which is classified as crime a "against marriage, family, youth and sexual morals" (házasság, család, ifjúság és nemi erkölcs elleni). Over the same period the number of rapes has held steady, at between 130 and 140.
In the Dark
But this rape figure, like all such crime numbers - save perhaps for those which result in a corpse - should probably be taken with a large grain of salt, as many assaults go unreported, especially by foreigners who are wary of calling the police. (The Canadian woman, for example, did not report her near-abduction.)
What this means is that if there has been a recent general upswing in attacks on women or foreigner women in particular, it is unlikely that the authorities are aware of it. Meanwhile, a decision by the country's Supreme Court this week will significantly cut the length of time - to a maximum of three years - that the police can maintain files on suspects in crimes who have not been convicted.
So however the search for Ophélie Bretnacher ends, it sadly appears that the story does not end with her, and that for the time being the days of being a carefree young woman in Budapest are over.
[Editor's Note: We are keeping comments open on this post for the sake of facilitating a discussion both on the Ophélie Bretnacher case, as well as the general issue of crime and personal security in Budapest and Hungary. Given the sensitive nature of the related material, we ask that you keep your comments on-topic and civil, and do not reveal any information about any of the mentioned cases that might be considered confidential by the authorities or the individual and families involved.]
EMAIL
COMMENT!Hi all,
I work at the Uni where Orphelie studies. I really hope she is found OK.
But, as Erik (Pestiside Ed.) knows, 3 or 4 cases (and only half of them in any way substantiated so far) *don't actually make a trend.
At the risk of sounding insensitive, this article is hugely alarmist. Yes, be careful walking around at night, but please remember that, as the statistics in the article indicate, BP is considerably safer than many other major cities. 99.999 percent of people make it home OK, every drunk evening in Bp.
Don't let the terror-monkeys get you down. Walk home with friends in your heart, not fear (of course, why not ask a friend to accompany you in person too :)
Peace.
Right, the whole story is alarming, and I have the feeling that the whole Erasmus experience in such a beautiful city as Budapest just gives you wings and makes you feel untouchable.
I used to be an exchange student @ Corvinus University in the winter semester 2005. I remember that time as the best of my life. I never felt any insecurity in that beautiful town, walking home drunk, often alone, every single night of the week, having fun and enjoying life as everybody else did. But I also remember the stories of some of my fellow students. Flat break-ins had been noticed, the first one was habited by a couple of Swedish girls, they woke up unusually late and didn't notice their alarms in the morning, their laptops were missing in the flat. The same happened to a couple of German girls a week after, they also suspected that some "sleep gas" had been used on them, as they didn't notice anything and woke up unusually late. Luckily exams at the hospital revealed that they hadn't been assaulted. I remember that the renting agency warned the other Erasmus students to pay attention as a couple of foreigners’ flats had been "visited"...
Anyway, I hope that Ophélie will be back with her family soon, and that all student remember that wherever you are, some precaution has to be taken. Feeling safe, and yes, Budapest makes you feel safe, and is probably safe!, doesn't mean that you shouldn't care about your friends. A short walk after the club is always better with friends. And a taxi ride home in Budapest is as cheap as 2 beers, so do not hesitate.
Reporting it here is almost ridiculous. When I told you about the assault in the VII (one there, one in the VI - which, did my friend who had it happen outside of Instant email?), the girl in question called the police who were very helpful in listening to her and being sympathetic, but in doing anything? Not at all. They let her file a police report, but did nothing to actually resolve the fact someone pushed her down in her apartment building and went groping. Furthermore, screaming help, in Hungarian, at seven pm yielded NOTHING from her neighbours. As I told you, this was the worst to me. Likewise, with my incident at Stadionok, I couldn't fathom dealing with the bureaucracy and the nightmare of reporting something the police would've brushed off. I didn't have a registration number or a clear description of the guy. How do I report that? It's not encouraging here, especially not as a foreigner.. as you know from my situation with my bike.
I still firmly believe Budapest is a safe town and a wonderful place. It's about being aware of your surroundings and taking care of people around you - just like any big city. I'm not sure what's going on right now, but I encourage people to be careful.
Either way, I hope Ophelie is found safe and sound and is soon home with her family.
I agree with the above commenters that it is wrong to go overboard to the point that people are scared to go out, which can lead to a vicious circle where the loss of social trust leads to more lack of trust and criminality. But I am simply hearing way too many reports from people of "random" acts of violence, many of which never end up as official cases in the system (which leads to bad statistics and a false sense of security). I also have had some interesting offhand conversations with young Hungarians who have told me they are surprised by how unconcerned *their* foreigner friends about issues relating to personal security. Finally, I am also bringing the perspective of an oldster who grew up (in the US) during a time when crime was so bad that twice I had a gun stuck in my face during the course of one school semester, on one occasion by a kid so young he could barely hold the fucking thing up. So again, no one should take this as a call to stay inside or only travel in packs, just to not be careless, and to remember that, especially when a society is under great stress, things can quickly spin out of control.
I must admit that Budepest is one of the few
cities that i have never felt unsafe in. So, i
find this quite alarming.
Having said that, I think we should all keep our
heads and continue living our lives. Mind you,
doing things like staggering home, from a party,
still drunk, in the wee small hours of the
morning, shouldn't be done. We need to stick
together and not let these a***holes win.
If nothing else, we should all perhaps invest in a
big, mean looking dog (such as the one sitting at
the front door of the S&M shop on Ó utca). Truth
be told, Fidel, the dog in question, is a harmless
sweetheart, but the attackers don't know that!
Erik, you are right about something in your comment. Before my own incident at Stadionok I never once thought twice about my personal security. I just figured it was a guarantee. I had so many nights in the summer walking home at three or four in the morning to Kiraly and Vorosmarty. I never even considered something could happen to me because the city is big, it's active, and it's hard to not feel invincible living here as a foreigner when the exchange rate is on my side. I was telling a friend about how I was followed off the night bus once and I gave the guy a 1000HUF and he took off. Didn't even think of it as a big deal, just another day, another situation in a capital city; however, with what happened at my old flat and the things happening around the city, I'm starting to have a sobering realization that saying "angol" doesn't protect me like it did in the summer. The very few incidents I had during the summer, really, if I said "angol" or "canadian" they really just left me alone. The other realization is money isn't going to buy me out of a fight or a situation.
Like it's been said, it's just about being aware. There is no reason to be an alarmist or stop going out. As an alcoholic in training I cannot sanction that, but it's definitely a good wake up call for people to start paying more attention to what they're saying, who they're saying it to, and where they're going. Those three things are common sense in any of our home towns, I'd imagine, and not something new that needs to be developed here. You're definitely right Hungarians are perplexed by how laissez faire us foreigners are with our personal security, which I never really got until everything going on lately.
Hi All,
No offense but this tipically seems a suicidal case. Really don't understand why everybody talks about attacks against foreigners as there is absolutely no evidence about it! While the handbag with valuables of the girl were found at the middle of a bridge over Danube, and THIS is a typical place in Budapest where suicide attempts happen since ages.
If still anybody feels endangered I recommend the available and legal non-lethal self defense tools like tear gas spays and gas guns.
Instead of being frightened all the time people should take care about their personal self defense.
Remember: the attackers ALLWAYS pick on the most unprotected or weak targets.
Definitely not suicide. Everyone has stressed this. She was by all accounts a bright, happy girl and to say something like that is really distressing I imagine. While I don't know her, I do know enough that suicide seems really unlikely.
As for saying that the attacks are unconfirmed, wrong. I can confirm quite a few that have happened to people I know, trust, and one against me. Someone telling me to "Get in my fucking car" isn't necessarily an attack, but I don't imagine he wanted to take me for a spot of tea and ask me my opinion on the Hungarian economic policies.
small girl: maybe you are right about growing violence in Hungary. The worsening economy and life conditions may push people towards violence or extremism.
A totally drunk gipsy fellow was thrown a burning cigarette stub into my face some weeks ago just to provoke fight - even if I was two times bigger than him...
Re to the current case: I still believe in suicidal-theory. I also had a friend who committed suicide 11 yrs ago. He also was a respected pianist and composer, student of best contemporary composers in Hungary, had a bright future in the Musical Academy, then suddenly and totaly unexpectedly he jumped out from the window of his 4th floor flat... The friends and family were completely shocked.
Toto_HU: I see where you are coming from, but I would like to point out that
1. Orphelie is French, not Hungarian. The French do not have a high suicide rate.
2. even if this is the case she had no way of knowing the suicide "hot spot" in Budapest.
3. le's say she fund out. Why Budapest? Why not Prague.
4. Remember she might have dropped her bag to leave a clue.
The thing is we do not know what happened.
Toto: I'm not necessarily saying Hungary has a growing violence rate, but I am saying something is going on. I think whenever there is a distressing economic crisis that causes the standard of living to fall; well, yeah, people aren't happy, and I'd almost be willing to say that's why foreigners seem to be in thick of this because we represent having a lot. Our exchange rates keep rising against the forint and as students or young workers, we don't have the same dismal outlook on what's going on here, or it's perceived we don't because it isn't our home, so to speak, and we can leave if it gets too rough. Compound that with how wealthy a lot of these students are, too, and there could be a correlation that's all. I still think Hungary is fairly safe and Hungarians are absolutely lovely. I really don't think there is some violent epidemic on the way and Gabor the Ripper is developing, but I think this is probably a wake up call for the way students and foreigners have been behaving. I'd say most of us are not even concerned and drunkenly stumble home from Instant, Szimpla, Mumus, Filter, Kuplung, Szoda, Godor, etc, without a second thought because it's only a ten minute walk, what could go wrong? I had it until the few things that happened to me in Stadionok, but I always excused those as part of living in the eighth.
"UPDATE: hvg.hu is now reporting details of the District IX attack, saying that the woman was taken to the local police precinct with injuries so severe she could not be questioned, and was almost "unrecognizable" to her friends."
"The woman?" It is a totally different case, i think it is ambiguously written. The woman with injuries is American. She has nothing to do with Ophélie Bretnacher.
Dear All,
I have been living a block away from the chain bridge for 28 years now. I don't remember to any cases of rape or kidnapping in this area.
Furthemore, for kidnapping , the Chainbridge would be the most stupidest spot, because a car has to stop far from the place of the attack. They can't just stop cars in the middle of the bridge without suspicion.
If it would be in the districts 8/9 the case would be more clear. But on a bridge in the safest place of town...
Why did she just walked to Rozsadomb from Dohany utca? It is like 1-2 hours more walk even from the bridge.
The police will reveal the case hopefully.But I am 90% sure what happened.
Besides all, I also hope that she will be found somewhere in good health.
Psymon
Psymon: fully agreed.
It is completely illogical to take a 2 hrs walk. If she rents a flat at Rozsadomb then it shouldn't be a problem to spend 2K HUF for a taxi...
Other news around noon were about possible kidnapping.
Ok people, i have been living in this city for like 6 yrs now and i can say the following:
I have always been aware about my personal security ( maybe partially due to the fact that i am black and 6yrs ago Hungary wasnt exactly "welcoming" to foreigners and i could be spotted easily in a thousand mile radius). You may say "ok that was 6 yrs ago"...but i have black friends who told me stories about what happened to them this past summer of 2008: they were going home from the Dokk island on foot and then a guy walking on the street said something derogratory,my friends responded, and then he pulled a gun (my friends couldnt verify if it was real or fake). Safe to say that my friends got away and went to the police,filed a report and all that,and that was the end of the story.
I am not telling this story to scare anyone, this could have been some random incident.Maybe some lunatic just escaped from the Asylum, who knows.
All i am saying that there are just some basic things that u should be aware of in any big city. Just bcos you heard that Bp is a safe city, doesnt mean that u should let go of ur security awareness. I also can say from 1st hand experience that exchange students tend to have this "invincibility" attitude.But i am not pointing fingers.All i am saying, Always be aware of your surroundings, dont be loud and obnoxious when walking on the street,walk on the main roads(and not the small streets)etc...i mean this is Security 101, the basic stuff..............
.......This brings me to my second assumption,
As said in sone previous posts, its strange to happen in that area. And also 2 hours walking to Roszadom....hmmm
Also the fact that they found her bag in-tact....
Someone in a previous post stated that "she wouldnt do this bcos she had a bright future,promising,smart etc"....
This is what we always hear about people who do appear on the news. "He was so nice and polite that he wouldnt hurt a fly"...I mean take for example the Columbine teenagers.
I am not saying that she commited a crime, but nobody can really know whats happening inside, everyone can put on a smile to be sociable.
I am not saying that i know what happened to her, all i am saiyng is that all the options are open
hi guys. Id like to add some things. First of all foreigners should really take care of themselves. Many of them have the "who cares, im just here for a couple of months" attitude and they act way different as they would act back home. Sometimes they dont necessary have to get hurt by other people, they hurt themselves. I can see your point by saying that foreigners are more likely to be a target of crimes. And i know that some groups prefer to rob foreigners, because it seems easier, and they hope to get more. But I think we should really divide rape and other crimes. I dont think its appropriate to define "sexual insults against foreigners" in this case. These kind of stories happen to many girls. And to many hungarian girls as well. Some of you might remember that big case about 5-6 years ago, when a high school girl was raped by 5 men and beat till she was "unrecognizable". And there are quite a few more cases.
I can understand that housebreakers or thiefs target foreigners, but those rapists i dont think they care about it. What kind of disgusting and sick minded people they are...leaving a young girl beaten up, naked on the street.
About the police? haha...joke of the city. It has nothing together with the fact that you are foreigner, black or white or anything. In this city of freedom, there is nothing they can do against anybody. Trust me on this, im talking from my own experience. And by the way once I called the police at night, and i heard the following message for more than 5 minutes. "Thank you for calling the hungarian police! Please wait till the operator gets through to you!" Now im asking what should we do if we were in a danger? Wait 5 minutes and than "sexual insults, rapes press 2"?
So everybody, dont overreact the things, but watch out!
I was alarmed by an incident that happened the on the evening of the 25th, and in light of these recent events I feel like I should tell it. I live on Podmanicszky I heard really terrible screams outside, which I first ignored thinking it was just a drunk person, but when it persisted I went on my balcony and saw a man who was dragging a women across the intersection and she was screaming. I called down to her asking if she needed help, but could not make it down fast enough from the floor I live on, and also I was quite scared to intervene. I think she had brown curlyish hair. She didnt respond to me so I was not sure if it was some sort of domestic dispute, I instant messaged my friend who lived on the street they were going towards who had a phone to go down and help and call the police but they didnt see my IM until much later. They were headed towards nagymezo, the street Instant is on.
Perhaps a little off:
I have been wary about my safety ever since one evening years ago at the Music Academy, just before a concert, crowds of people depositing their coats at the cloakroom. A sharp exchange between two men developed into an argument, then I just remember seeing a gun brandished, and the guy with the gun runs out (thank goodness). So even when you think you're in a really safe place... like Budapest, or the Music Academy...
Thorough article:
http://index.hu/politika/bulvar/brtnchr4509/
Summary:
1.Divers didn't find Ophelie in the river on Friday
2.The police didn't draw any conclusions yet. She either fell into the river or left with a car.
3.According to the writer, the kidnapping is highly unlikely due to the huge bars between the pedestrian pavement and the car.
4.She might have left with a car, by on her own, climbing through the bars. The police thus asks information from cab companies.
Maybe while on the bridge, she wanted to look down on the river and fell down, or she felt sick fell over the balustrade while vomiting..
In any case, this is really sad and frightening!
I agree the article is alarmist, but people should definitely be careful. I'm American, and my gf is Hungarian, and since the recent events I either walk her home or she cabs it directly to her flat. In '05/06 I walked home every night, drunk, into the upper VII. district. I never had a problem with this, but I'm a guy (and I didn't notice much around me anyway). When I told local Magyars where I lived and what I did every night, they thought I was insane. So I personally have not seen or heard of much crime around me, but it definitely exists out there. I hope something on Ophelie emerges and that all you stay safe.
hi,
I agree bp is ussualy v safe, i have been here 3 years. However it is noticeable that over the past year there is more anti foriegner feeling, this couldjust be usual hooligan elem,ent, but maybe the growth of nationalist like Magyar Guarda doesn't help the atmosphere...
interesting comments and we are all guessing. hope that the young woman will be found safe. budapest used to be a safe city, then it got 'civilized' and all of the western elements arrived through the media to a people who did not have time to gradually prepare for it. this factor always brings out the worse from the weak because freedom without responsibility is merely trading slavery from one thing to another.
safety 101 is a responsibility of everyone going out on the street, be it a foreigner or hungarian. if you are expecting the police to protect you, you are wrong. they'll take the report and with that their job is considered done.
Hire a private detective or some retire Foreign legionare and look at the garbage Gypsy mafia.
My opinion 95%, that they stole it for a street girl.
Check and translate the following link.
http://kuruc.info/r/1/32222/
They have informations which can be entrusted in the majority of the cases for them about the Gypsy delinquency in Hungary.
God Bless and save Ophélie.
hi everyone
I am Hungarian, and I lived in Budapest for 6 years, and thinking back, sometimes I did really stupid things like walking alone in the dark at the Kelenföld station listening to my iPod, and thanks lord Jesus, nothing happened, but now I am really aware of things. Budapest looks safe, but it is not : I have to admit this, Hungarians have (unfortunately and it is really shameful) a big record on taking advantage of foreign people. It is sad but true. And there are a lot of criminals as well. Be careful :
1. put the emergency number in your phone on speed dial (friends, police) and always tell someone where you are and what to you do and when to expect you to go home
2.carry a gas/paprika spray with you (it is not illegal, but anyway, who cares, if it saves your life - you can get these in military shops)
3. take a taxi : just tell the cab driver that you are not stupid and that he should not take you "sightseeing"and you have a certain amount of money to go home - trust me, they will bring you home and you ll save money and you ll be safe)
And use official and trustworthy taxi companies. Just google them, there are safe taxies there.
4. there are some unsafe districts in Budapest : 8th, Stadionok, Keleti station...
5. a little OCD could be helpful : always lock the door, and do not open the door to anyone you do not know... no joke. They ll try everything to get into your house. Be smarter.
And yes, the Hungarian police sucks, big time.
They do not speak English, and they wont care. So try to avoid any dealing with them... I know...
If you are in a different city, especially going out and having fun, you must be careful. Budapest is nice, people are nice, but there are some sick psychos out there as anywhere!!!
take care
happyinbp wrote:
"...but maybe the growth of nationalist like Magyar Guarda doesn't help the atmosphere..."
Magyar Gárda is the reaction to the "hungarian" goverment's cynicism. There is no problem with the Gárda, if the goverment would take care of the people and not the criminals the Gárda would disappear. Otherwise, the Gárda is a fully legal organisation, they never broke any law. You live here for 3 years, that means, you know nothing about the political situation in Hungary. Please DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING you read in the newspapers or see in the televisions or hear from your friends!!!! I wonder what kind of experiences you have with the Gárda, that you have this opinion. (I think nothing, only the news and gossips. Am I right?)
Otherwise, when I told to a Brazilian friend of mine, that Budapest in unsafe, he laughed at me and told: "Unsafe? You have never been to Rio". So, it depends on the point of view. :)
By the way, I still say, that Budapest is not the safest european capital. It's very hard to give universal advices to evade the dangerous situations. Never walk on the strees at night with earphones in your ears. Avoid the dark streets, try to go on the main streets as long as possible. If you are alone, never stop for someone who asks for a cigarett or something other in the night, especially in the subways and in the small, dark streets. Don't wear your gold,silver...etc chains over your clothes.
This is all that come to my mind now.
If you are a foreigner and you don't speak the hungarian language, never hail a taxi on the streets at night. Always call one from a known taxi company.
I am a hungarian who lives in Dublin. I can say to you that Dublin is far more dangerous city than budapest is(i'd lived in budapest in dist. 7 for 4 years earlier). In Dublin you can see fights, shootings, and stabbing every day in the newspapers and gangs rules the streets and selling drugs. It is a very drug infected city.
That's true in every big(ger) city don't walk on the streets in the nights alone. What people don't know in Budapest is that they have to face crime which will be tougher and tougher in the future. It is a pitty but this is the trend of present life.
There is only one likely explanation for the case. Not suicide. She caught a taxi on the bridge. It was late night, she did not want to miss the taxi. Therefore she climbed over chains and accidentally left her bag there. The taxi driver could be very angry for the girl because she could not pay. She even could not identify herself. It is possible that something went in a very wrong direction, you know. Taxi drivers are typically men and not always nice people. I am quite pessimistic, and I do not really understand why nobody thoroughly investigates this possibility. Or?
There is not enough information to make an evaluation about what happened. But there is an ongoing problem of sudden disappearances of college students and their unexplained unexpected suicides.
Friends are stunned when these things happen and no one can explain what happened. The student appears normal then is gone with out warning.
VisionAndPsychosis.Net has proposed that a normal feature of human physiology Subliminal Distraction is to blame. This phenomenon was discovered to cause mental breaks for office workers in the 1960's in the United States. The cubicle was created to deal with it by 1968.
Pierro, i don't like your "only" explanation.
Catching a taxi on Lánchíd is almost impossible, because the structure blocks line of sight.
Accident is the most probable: she stopped to watch the view, tried to sit on the parapet around the pillar, and fell off. Or an impulse murder happened: she sat on the parapet, and someone knocked her into the river. Or an abduction, but just on Lánchíd and the bag left, this is unlikely. The same goes for suicide: i'm with my friends, then walking home, passing the Duna, and, oh, i want to kill myself right here right now, this does not make sense.
Unrelated, I know, but who is this person defending the Magyar Garda, whose members dress up like meter maids and pretend to be an army? No one needs "gossip" to know that they and Vona Gabor are fascist wannabe's who play dress up and admire Szalasi's evil Arrow Cross. Useless, bombastic hooligans who are an embarrassment to the whole country.
As for Orphelie, may she be discovered safe and sound. Kellemes Karacsonyi Unnepeket es Boldog Uj Evet mindenki.
@Eddie /So, what do you "dress up like?" &, how does dressing up
compare to beating a teacher to death in front of his children or
killing high school kids on their way home from school? Which is
exactly what the Gárda is trying to call attention to. Ophélie wasn't
the first student attacked on a Budapest bridge. There have been
some pretty nasty late night attacks on Hungarian kids on Budapest
bridges since May / barikad.hu/node/13982 / committed
invariably by Gypsy gangs. I am not defending the cops but they
are usually ordered to cover such cases up. They can't even say
"Roma" unless the Gypsy is the victim which is hardly ever the case.
Oh, shut up! No waiters' guard and uncivilised tribesmen please, haladjanak tovább nincs itt semmi látnivaló, here Ophelie Bretnacher disappeared.
Visitor, this Ophélie wasn't the first student attacked on a bridge (how can you know she was attacked?), therefore you have to spread your most probably racist issue, is soooo nice.
Well, the news: police has witness(es) and found no sign of a criminal act to investigate, anyone?
I hope she is found safely. This "visionquest" disorientation has to
be bullshit. Many disappearances in the US were ascribed to this
entity. Some speculated the disappearances were for organ
procurement. Is there solid organ transplantation in Hungary? I
think the possibility extremely remote however. I walked
everywhere in Hungary last summer. And yes to Roszadom from
distant kerulets. Never once did I have problems. Lots of drunk,
homeless. Couldnt believe all the Roma going thru the discarded
items. (Special day of the year?)I am about 230lbs 6'1" so I dont
know....I am also hyper alert. Sadly I was never attacked. I dressed
way down. Some "kids" tried to pickpocket my elderly father near
the parliament (trolley #2?). Well dressed kids. My sister nearly
ripped them a new one. They ran off.
Hi,
I agree with almost everyone here, just one thing. Chain bridge is not a tipical place to commit suicide. It is the Liberty Bridge, the green one, the second one downstream from Chain Bridge. It is very difficult to get to the water from Chain Bridge. I dont think she commited suicide. This must be terrible for the parents, that they just dont know anything! OMG!!! Dear God! Please, let her get back to her parents safe!
Love, Orsi from Budapest
@ist /"No waiters' guard and uncivilised tribesmen please,
haladjanak tovább nincs itt semmi látnivaló" you sound like a cop…
Are you a cop or associated in any way with law enforcement?
"police has witness(es)" Witnesses *to what?* As for the surveillance
tape, we don't know what date it was recorded on. Does it show
her losing her bag?
I am a foreign student studying in Debrecen University. Although Debrecen, as I am told, is a relatively peaceful town in Hungary, I've already experienced two cases of harassment in the span of 3 months by some masked (Hungarian?) thugs! My concern grew when my friend told me of the same terrible experience too.
Now we live in perpetual fear. Personally, this affects my interaction with people and I become unnecessary over wary. I have already made it a policy not to stay outside, no matter what, after 9.00pm. I can't wait to finish my studies and go back home.
I hope someone out there who can do something is listening.
Happy New Year!
I still don't have a clue why so many people are screaming about attacks and violence against foreign students.
The latest news were enancing the suicide theory. As they said Ophelie was mentally instable and very drunk when she left the bar.
There are no misteries, no growing hate, no 'something is going on'.
The body was simply not found after a suicide, thats all.
Let me stop the snowfall. Again... a) Suicides' bodies don't
usually disappear b) the cops are incompetent, crooked morons
lying as usual. In fact, there is a chance Ophélie met up with
them, like Zsanett/
hvg.hu/velemeny/20070516_zsanett_rendorseg_eroszak.aspx /
did last May and there was more than one accident. b) To
hopefully find Ophélie or at least find out what really happened
to her, her parents shouldn't even bother with the Hungarian
police. They should go straight to the Budapest bureau of the
FBI. They can do more in Hungary than they could do in the
States. They conduct their own investigations, can carry guns,
have arrest powers in rump Hungary regardless of citizenship,
etc. & more [Boston Globe] /
boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2008/12/14/w
orld_traveler / AND Hungarian police wouldn't dare to refuse an
order or request for information from them even if some of their
own number committed the crime.
What they really need is to get Creasy here do do some investigation and find that girl.
Hi there
I dont think its safe to walk around alone in Budapest or ANY OTHER CITY IN THE WORLD at 3 am for a woman. I used to be an exchange student in Denmark and I know it feels more safe to be in a foreign country but also there a man stuck a knife into one of my friends on a bus in the daytime.
Take care of yourself, wherever you are.
re: Visitor #39 Dec 30, '08 @ 17:52
I don't have any law enforcement background, just wanted to warn commenters to stay on topic.
You forgot, how can you know "Ophélie WASn't
the first student ATTACKED on a Budapest bridge"...?
Re: #44, woman /you are right. when you 're new in a foreign
country everything seems to be unreal & you are very vulnerable.
Babes in the Wood...
Re: #45, terror /I know about the attacks from zines, blogs and
videos such as: / barikad.hu/node/13982 / (just add the the 3 w's
for the article if you know Hungarian). As for my first guess about
Gypsies: according to police internal data about 80% of violent
crime in Hungary is committed by Gypsies. Which is why they are
still the best guess. We basically have the same issue with Gypsies
the Ashkenazim have in Israel with the Palestinians. The only
significant difference is that we were here first.
Hi,Before Christmas I met a girl from USA,she was enjoying her ERASMUS in Budapest-I hope she wasn´t that mentioned victim of the rape:(
I feel sorry about Ophelie and hope she´s gonna be found...good luck to her family and to her too!!!!!!!!
According to the police, she had 7 biers and 7 shots of something strong in that evening before disappearing. Now that is a lot even for a man. It looks as if she was not that happy afterall, despite how her friends and family is trying to put it.
But it's understandable, if I was about to do an internship at an auditing firm, i would not have been happy about it either...
This is morbid but worth pursuing. Hungary has a professionalized and very competent solid organ transplant community. It actively solicits patients globally. It also has lots of mafia and corrupt government(not as corrupt as US however). I would like to know the transplant surgical log in Buda, Szeged, and Debrecen. I would like to know what small jet aircraft left Hungary the day after the abduction(s)- that likely harbored the organs. Since this is amazingly lucrative (1 million+ for a liver), this explains the active disinterest by local law enforcement. If I have just disgusted everyone here, I sincerely apologize.
I think that's a lot more fanciful than it is morbid. If I was humouring you, I might suggest that it wouldn't make much sense to target someone who would be missed, and that local junkies and vagrants might be safer bets. Possibly not for their livers.
Call the transplant centers. Ask who received organs in the
subsequent 48 hours.
I'll get right on it. Meanwhile, you go and talk to Old Man Jenkins, the owner of the haunted theme park, and I'll meet you back at the Mystery Machine.
Organ procurement is a multi billion $ "business". Although it is
functioning in the gray zone. Most organs utilized in europe are
done so without any sort of consent. It is an absolutely proven fact
that Russiaand China have utilized organs from (executed)
prisoners. A simple question: how many heart, liver, kidney
operations were performed in hungary the day after the abduction?
There is a specific and knowable answer.
Oh God, seriously? If we’re going to speculate, she might just as easily have been sold as a sex slave, or joined a religous cult. Have you ever heard of Occam’s Razor? You’d probably find the truth a little more prosaic.
Pathology has to review each organ and make a full evaluation prior
to transplantation. It should be very easy for the investigators to
question each pathologist who specializes in this type of
evaluation. Couldnt be that many in Hungary. There couldnt be
that many nurses that specialize in the post operative care of these
patients. Question them all. There are too many people involved in
this type of procedure to maintain secrecy. A similar scandal
occured in Los Angeles a few years ago.
Research update. Yes, Hungary has an extremely well recognized for profit solid organ transplant industry. It is well recognized and known internationally. The Hungarian organ transplant industry solicits patients world-wide including patients from the US, Middle East, and europe. If a surgery was performed utilizing these organs, there is a surgical log somewhere in Hungary or perhaps Germany that could elucidate the situation. That they would send divers into the Danube was absolutely ridiculous. Anyone who knows Budapest woould agree. There is a reported 4 video cameras on the Lanchid yet no footage revealed. a clear attempt to confound the situation.
I like organs. I have a Hammond B3, but it isn't very easy to transport. You need four guys to carry it, and every one of them will hate you, even those who don't get a hernia in the process. Pretty heavy stuff.
Stan...didn't realise you were a musician. Cool that you have a Hammond B3.
Nobody's going to make a joke about Stan needing four guys to carry his organ? I despair, I really do.
anon,
Yes, I used to be a musician, now it's just a hobby. The B3 is for sale if interested.
Will,
How about this:
They don't call Stan "Hung Aryan" for nothing...
Ah, the old white supremacist jokes are always the best.
How much are you selling the B-3 for? I'm trying to put a studio together at the minute and might be interested.
Will,
The B3 is collecting dust on the second floor of my studio in Upsatate New York, and must be picked up there. $2,000 cash buys it. Needs a good tune-up.
So I'd have to drag it 4,000 miles and *then* up 3 flights of stairs? Groo.
One could also determine who was receiving dialysis treatment in
hungary at the time of abduction. I believe there are 3 very high
level dialysis center in Hungary that attract foreigners. I would also
suggest that the organ recipient probably received multiple organs
further limiting the number of people to be interrogated.
salk...for crying out loud, will you give it a rest? You're starting to creep me out.
Will...I'm not sure you should make such an 'offer'...salk might take you seriously and you'll wind up waist deep in an ice-bath.
Roughly a year ago a very high-ranking Hungarian woman judge said that if she was raped she would probably not report it to the Hungarian police because of their contemptuous and humiliating attitude toward rape victims.
james...that hardly surprises me. The Police Force is very much a boys' club, with female members being pressured to masculanise or become sex objects themselves.
I also know that Police in general are reluctant to get involved in sexual assault cases because of the low likelihood that anything can be done anyway. Often it is 'her word against his'. Even if a case does go to court, the trauma of the trial itself often only adds to the humiliation of the victim. I have been present at such trials and it makes me feel sick. Sentences imposed are also often little more than a 'slap on the wrist', while the victim continues to deal with the 'shame' of what happened. What's worse is that often the community adds to the pain by blaming the victim. I remember one case (not Hungary) where a juror, also a 19 year old woman said of the victim 'she probably deserved it...she probably led him on', and another case where the judge found that 'sometimes "no" can mean "yes".'
Many estimates of sexual assault place *actual* rates at twice those reported.
As far as the Hungarian police are concerned, I am well aware of the preference of officers to avoid any meaningful contact with foreigners because of the reluctance to speak a foreign language. It doesn't surprise me at all that the Ophelie case is going nowhere. I can imagine the cops sitting in the briefing room making inappropriate jokes about her and doing their best to get out of having to do anything to find her.
Lads, Guys,
I really don't like to say: "I told ya!!!"...
But if you read the previous comments I already told you 2 months ago that this seems as a typical suicidal case.
And now, today the police finally found Opheile's body in Danube, ending this mistery.
Really sorry about the family but this was a typical suicide case from the very beginning.
Again, nothing is going on against foreigner students in Budapest. This was a suicide what's a tragedy for the family - but that's all. We don't need to organise rallys or anything because of her - she was simply wanted to die on her own wish.
This is what was happened.
is this another poor comment or did you find the body and neglected to notify authorities. there is certaibnly nothing in the news about her body having been found.
my most humble apologies, just had my second cup of joe and found the small line of mention that the jewelry suggests that the body found is of ....
@klara: They are still running tests on the body. The body they found had indeed been in the water for some time, so is unrecognisable and bloated. No firm conclusion is being drawn at this stage. Look on hirlista.hu and almost every paper is running a 6 line story on this, this morning.
It's all over the news, although there's not been any formal identification.
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/255542,body-in-danube-probably-missing-french-student-say-police--summary.html
http://www.caboodle.hu/nc/news/news_archive/single_page/article/11/ophelie_bret/?cHash=e7bae4bb8e
Well from what MTI is reporting the body is almost certainly hers, and that there is no obvious signs of her being murdered. But that doesn't at all prove she did herself in; a friend of mine in New York was horsing around on one of the bridges over the East River with some pals and one fell in and died. So my guess is that it is likely we will never know what actually happened to her.
The only thing that seems a bit odd to me is that in two months' time, her body only drifted as far as Csepel.
Wow, I happened to be in the back of a police car last night when a call came over the radio for a "vizi hulla" in Csepel at about 17:45. I have been following this news item for a while and never put them together till just now.
At least her family have some kind of an answer, but as Erik said above, I don't think we'll ever know exactly what happened that night.
@Gargoyle. You "happened to be in the back of a police car last night"?? - what were you doing, just minding your own?
@ Will
I was witness to a robbery at a shop, so I stayed til the police got there as the old biddy running the place was pretty upset; when the police got there we drove around a bit to see if I could spot the folks who robbed her - as I got a decent look at them.
It was actually my first interaction with the police here, after more than a decade living in Bp, and I know it goes against popular belief, but they were polite, efficient and very organised.
Only one "funny" moment; when I tried to be my PC self in describing the thieves as "roma szarmozasu" the officer taking the statement replied "tehat cigany!"
Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticiking to it! :-)
@the fuzz, posting as Toto, Gargoyle et al. /We don't even know
whom you've "found," officers… Do you think Ophélie's parents
will buy this crock?
I posted the first article on this thread, about the need to keep a sense of perspective on the likelihood of bad stuff happening to you in this fairly safe city of ours.
The main thing we have to fear is fear itself.
Peace.
@Visitor
Fuzz?
Did you just escape from the 1970's?
Hopefully her parents will prove, to their own satisfaction, the identity of the body - outside of the local police force if they need to (DNA, Finegrprints, Dental etc).
Also, I have yet to meet a local police officer who is able to speak, let alone write, in English; so you can strike me off your paranoid list of police officers masquerading as posters here. (cos here's where they would really be at the cutting edge of disinformation right?)
Anyway, better go before the pigs trace this message.
Poor ophelie bretnacher! May her soul rest in peace and my deepest sympathies to her family and friends.
Her body was found Thursday and identified as her on Saturday morning. A case of an accidental death, probably due to the fact that she had many drinks in the Portside and on her way home, started vomiting when she got to the bridge and lost her balance and fell into the water.
She didn`t deserve to die that way, or so young.
Lets hope that they install CCTV on all the bridges
and some safety railings to prevent such things happening again!
Such things are more constructive than idiot bloggers with their stupid speculation, rumours and theories.
@The PR pigs /"Fuzz" actually comes from the 1930's where I wish
we could all go back to redo things… As for Ophélie's body, how
do we know how and where she died or how and from where she
got to the location where she was found? Police statements are, no
pun intended, a bit fuzzy. "I have yet to meet a local police officer
who is able to speak, let alone write, in English" Which is why they
hired you and Budapest7, anon600ad, and other perhaps? How else
would you meet all these linguistically challanged cops. Your
comments too were just a bit too stilted to be genuine.
@ Visitor,
I can only echo the above comments, let the poor girl (and this thread) rest in peace.
You are a prince, Wilbur, but letting her killers (and who knows what else they had done to her) live happily ever after is not 'letting her rest in piece.' Nor would it be responsible toward the expat community or anyone living in Hungary really. Nor is your colleagues behavior ( Elhiszi ezt valaki? http://www.magyarhirlap.hu/cikk.php?cikk=160589 ) acceptable or anything you say believable.
Could there be a connection between Ophélie's murder and the Belenkaya extradition? Hungo media never mentions that Élise was kidnapped by his father first («Jean-Michel André fait de son côté l'objet d'une enquête en Russie pour enlèvement après avoir récupéré Élise en septembre 2008 à Moscou en l'arrachant à sa nounou russe» Le Figaro 19/05/2009) who basically skipped out on his wife and child then changed his mind about the kid and kidnapped her. Her mom just *kidnapped her back* TWICE. Belenkaya btw has and has always had CUSTODY. Which is why it so majoraly SUCKS that our spineless whore government extradited Belenkaya to FRANCE of all places! I wouldn't be surprised if there would have been a deal between the French and our so called government that France will stop pressing them about Ophélie's murder if Irina's extradited. The solution of which would have messed up the FBI-ÁVO co-production of a Gypsy killing Hungarian Fascist Death Squad coming soon to a medium near you anyway if she was killed by Gypsies as she probably was. (Don't overreact,I'm just thinking out loud ;)
There is not a conspiracy behind every act; that is product of your lunatic mind. A simple act of logical deduction would help you conclude that since both France and Hungary are in the EU, and Russia is not, Hungary will side with.....(I am sure there is someone you can ask but I will give you a hint, it starts with the letter F)
I knew Visitor was nuts, but this is a whole new level of batshit insane.
I don't understand all the people who are upset at this article. Knowledge is power. I'd rather read about this and remember to keep my wits about me than not read about it and find out too late. If it's true then we are forewarned, if it's not then it's not. This article is not ruining the reputation of Budapest as a safe place. I used to live in a tourist town in the U.S. and knew of many crimes but the people who owned the hotels and resorts did not want tourists to know about because it would ruin business. Sounds like the same kind of mentality here. I've been living in Budapest for a month now and feel totally safe, even after reading this article. The only difference now is that I'm going to be a bit more careful. No harm in that is there? Fight ignorance don't encourage it. Peace.
@record_keeper /"There is not a conspiracy behind every act..." Of course not. It's just how banana republics are governed. "since both France and Hungary are in the EU, and Russia is not..." Hungary fails to enforce then breaks both Hungarian and EU law... You really are a dim bulb, aren't you, Hápogó? On the bright side, you finally had an *argument* instead of just hurling insults and curses like you usually do.
@someone else /"a whole new level of batshit insane" Another mud slinging moron, how refreshing... Are you with the FBI (AMSTAPO) yourself, moron? An American adviser to the Hungarian Police, perhaps? ( Come on, you can tell us, nobody reads these boards... :)
