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American Embassy Warns Americans to Avoid American Embassy
If you've never seen one, the "warden announcements" sent out occasionally by the U.S. Embassy in Budapest offer a sometimes useful and almost always entertaining glimpse into the thinking of the people running the bunker-like nagykövetség on Szabadság tér, a few blocks from the Hungarian Parliament. The most recent edition is no exception. Sent out this Tuesday, it focused on the increasingly tense political situation in the country, and included the following observations and slightly alarming advice:
Between February 11 and March 15, Parliament will hold debates and votes on important legislation (health care, education) that have been emotionally charged issues in the past. Demonstrations at or near Parliament (to include Vértanúk tere - Imre Nagy statue/bridge) are expected regularly. At Parliament, police have placed barriers at the perimeter, which may cause large groups of demonstrators to be staged on Alkotmány utca and other adjacent areas.
Demonstrations may range in size and violence is a possibility. Last year, demonstrators threw bottles and spat at members of Parliament during similar debates/votes. Combined with the recent spike in crimes committed against government officials (especially members of Parliament), police are preparing a significant security presence to try to control demonstrations. The United States Embassy in Budapest is advising Embassy staff to avoid these locations when possible.
All fine and well, except for the fact that the embassy itself, which sits across from the widely-despised Soviet war memorial, is generally at or near ground zero whenever there is a significant anti-government demo in Budapest. In other words, if you are an American and you want to avoid getting tear-gassed or beaten up by crazy right-wingers or the police, your best bet is to avoid the American Embassy! But that's not all.
What are we to make of the embassy "advising Embassy staff to avoid these locations when possible"? Does this mean they are being told not to go to Parliament because it's not safe? If so, doesn't that seem a little odd coming from a country that likes to get into wars in places most of its citizens don't even know exist? On the other hand, maybe it's just a clever inside job by the local members of the staff to avoid having to come in to the office. Either way, seems like it may be time to butch up a bit, kids; even a full-bore civil war in Hungary wouldn't be half as dangerous taking the wrong exit in Washington and ending up somewhere in S.E.
EMAIL
COMMENT!I have in fact accidently taken that wrong exit off 95 in DC about 15 years ago.
If you are ever caught on the wrong side of a riot in Hungary there are two sure fire ways to protect yourself from bodily harm.
a) Start An Argument. Doesn't matter about what but it will either get your assailant talking and not killing or cause further arguments amongst multiple assailants causing them to ignore you. Remember Hungary's greatest natural resource is opinions.
b) Complain. Hungarians will always allow someone the right to complain. Of course you must reciprocate the sympathetic ear. By the time all complaining is done the riot will have passed.
Oh, man! Go on, rub it in! No wonder the suicide rate is so high in our beloved Hungoland, what with all those stupid foreigners telling us how stupid and dumb we are. Hey, dude we're depressed and grumpy enough as it is. Now tells us something new!
Hey man, it's not our fault that you people can't find anyone more qualified to run your county than a corrupt, thieving ex-communist or a whining, clueless, populist, neo-fascist idiot.
Why don't any of you take responsibility to fix your shitty, polluted, poor, falling-apart country, instead of just sitting around bitching about it? Is it because actually doing something productive and constructive is against Hungarian culture?
What the hell .....
WTF is with the sudden onslaught of anti-Hungarian hate spewing? Are you guys an organized team or something?
Agree with you Mariska!
Don't we all miss the good all days when PestiSide was just anti-Slovak, anti-Romanian, anti-Gypsie, but not so much anti-Jew (wonder why?).
No, because I don't remember it ever being that way. I'm not talking about the actual articles btw, I'm talking about these comments sections. If all this disgusting hatred and bitterness doesn't stop soon I'll probably give up reading Pestiside for good.
There's a difference between good-natured or not essentially mean-spirited barbs tossed out, and the comments that have shown up here lately.
Americans are typically paranoid to begin with, hell most of them don't even know where Hungary is. I say this sadly a I am an American. The problem isn't the protesters in Hungary, it is the Hooligans that take advantage of situations. As I've said before, Budapest, including the police force, could benefit from non-Hungarian management. Hungarian management is based too much on the good ol' boy system and when that doesn't work bribes are a good back-up. I am not talking about the average Hungarian as they are the ones who suffer but the CEO's and Politicians. Once the average Hungarian figures out the power of the vote things can change.
Hmmm,
some anti-Americanism and a bit of racism in the same article. Well done Pestiside! You truly have your finger on the pulse.
"If all this disgusting hatred and bitterness doesn't stop soon I'll probably give up reading Pestiside for good."
Is this a promise or a tease?
Maybe people have a different perspective than you that justifies the criticisms? My partner and I have to do a lot of interactions with Hungarians both professional and personally and while there are some genuinely nice people there is a selfish streak in Budapest that is frankly disgusting and dis-spiriting. In the past couple of years we have been lied to on numerous occassions, threatened with thinly veiled violence, had attempted blackmail, attempts to cheat us when we paid promptly for services/goods (seems we are considered suckers for meeting our obligations) and worse of all had our time wasted by stupid mistakes and arguments over trivial matters and previously agreed upon points.
Hungarians would much rather waste 20.000HUF and hours of time to cheat someone of 2.000HUF.
better yet why dont all you god damn child molesting yankees go home
To Americans, a Yankee is a Northerner.... being from the South I highly resent being called a Yankee. Please try to refrain from calling all US citizens Yanks or Yankees, some of us get offended.
bob i was reading your comment on doing business andwhen i finished i looked back up to see if it was me that wrote it.
It's easy to get mad with Hungarians.
There's no doubt that meeting obligations in Hungary is seen as a sucker's game. In most cases it stems from a lack of pride in work done well. I've seen this in university as well as in business, and of course in respect of public services.
In my humble opionion many Hungarians really don't have it so bad any more. But the 'life is shit so why should I care about a job well done' mentality prevails. Until social cohesion --not material wellbeing -- improves, the lives of people will not.
How can social cohesion improve? Well, some studies show it takes 60% of any given group to act one way (in this case with trust, honesty, integrity) until significant changes happen. So it may be a while til things change round here :)
David,
well to be honest we just treat them like spoiled little children. We don't react to their bad behavior but reward good behavior. We use escrow accounts as "time outs". Rub their noses in their messes and pat them on the back and pay them when they fix their screwups.
We think we educated one contractor in proper behavior now. He once tried to blackmail us by reporting us to local authorities for an inspection. We told him "good idea! we just called them ourselves they are coming out next week". He was a bit dismayed since he was concerned about his work being legal without an initial inspection.
The communist period has created narcissism throughout the population. It will be slow to correct but I think it will eventually On the plus side Hungary is not nearly as bad as many of its neighbors. Places like Romania, Croatia and Serbia seem to be filled with psychopaths. And Austrians are Austrians.
Thing is many expats act the same or worse than the locals. Central Europe is a narcissists paradise.
spoiled little children - nail on the head. I'd say that applies to 90% of the Hungarian population. In business and in love. Maybe coz they are so cosseted as children and never work a job in their lives and cheat their way through university til they jump into the 150K+mobile phone suit at the (western-owned)Multinational - through the help of mummy's contact.
"Widely-despised Soviet war memorial"? Just because the lunatic fringe and you don't like it, doesn't make it widely-despised! As is true for Vienna's similar memorial to this day - no one in Budapest cared one bit about that statue until a few extremists tried to make an issue of it.
Pulling down and erecting statues and memorials is fine for politicians national and local - as a substitute for real action or substantial expenditure, but achieves nothing for the electorate and just plain clutters public space (see at least a dozen monuments, tablets and inscriptions on Kossuth Square commemorating whatnot, instead of having, say a single operational toilet there).
just to clarify something. david is david and David is the eejit from Caboodle forum who cannot buy a tv. Thank you .
Bob, Dave....take you business somewhere else
please. Really! I am an American Hungarian who
is trying to any small part that I can to help the land of my ancestors. People like you who come and take what benefits you can and then slap us in the face we don't need. Hungary is a struggling country who just threw off communisum in 1989. All things considered, it is coming along just fine. If you would ever try to pass you idiot crap to any of my brothers you would be missing your front teeth. Yes it will take time to wear down many problems in Hungary but then again...why not deal in the good ole USA where there are some home grown nuts after 200 years of freedom!!!!
elayne,
You are an American with a romantic fantasy about her ancestry. Please don't reprimand anyone who lives in Hungary and has a clue. Also if you are going to offer physical violence to people do it yourself and in person not in proxy and over the internet. Typical dumb American cow. Not a trace of Hungarian culture in you. A decent Hungarian woman would never be as rude as you.
bob you were kinder to her than i was going to be earlier today and decided not to bother. won't do much good, her hungarian portion is greater than her american influence and she's stuck and frustrated. what else is new. god forbid anybody give a hungarian any suggestions or help. thanks? no, they'll be insulted. if they had nothing to complain about they'd be a much more misreable bunch. nothing can be done because they've determined that it is so - please don't confuse them with any alternatives, help or suggestions, you'll only be thought of as an arrogant foreigner. oh, fuck - change my name to clara
When everyone finds Eden, make sure you tell us about it.
I have been looking for the best country for years.
When I start to study the different nations in the world, they all have warts that just make them incompatible to what the perfect nation should be.
Take England as an example...their food sucks and all those CCTVs just make it incompatible to a perfect nation if you are a freedom loving person.
Except Hungary....Hungary is the perfect country.
For my American expats that can not see it, go home. Evangelical America wants you back.
For my Hungarian brothers who complain all the time, wake up and smell the Paprika. Your little country is a beautiful little country. The glass is not half empty...it is half full. It is time to fill it to the top.
I'm with Pali too - glass is most definately half-full, and the job is to fill it up to the rim. Hajra M-stan, and hajra Pali.
Fair enough Pali - but the big questions are 1) will the Hungarians ever be able to put aside their self-righteous complaining and realize that their glass is half full? 2) even if they realize that the glass is half full, will they be able to exercise the self-discipline and make the sacrifices needed to fill the glass, or will they just drink what's there and then stumble off to look for someone else's glass to steal?
I myself am not so sure ....
Bedwetter's point is also not totally misplaced; but for me, the main point is that, if you "grading on a curve" Hungos are not particularly damaged or weird or unpleasant (or really anything else all that extreme). I've been to at least 75 countries, and probably worked in 25, and people here just strike me as ... well, pretty middle-of-the road. So if anyone on this thread, etc. is obsessed by the notion that the average Hungo *is* particularly this way or that, it mostly says to me that they haven't been around the block much.
Bedwetter...
As the country moves away from its communist past, I believe you will start seeing a change in attitude. It's generational.
I see it in my Family. The cutoff seems to be 40 and above are living in the past. The under 40 crowd in my Family are far more hopeful and have a different attitude about life. In my Family, the under 40 crowd are far more Entrepreneurial and willing to take risks. The older crowd want security.
It is the echo of the old system. Plus the old system was rooted in fear. The younger generations no longer have the level of fear people experienced about 25-30 years ago.
I am hopeful because I saw the old world and see the hope in the new world. It may take one step at a time.
Pali,
Not sure where you live but the cutoff now is people in their 50's. The main reason for the neg attitude is that they got caught at the wrong time with the change. Hungary's current problems are from nationalism, populism and capitalism. Things were looking great in the late 90's. Please note communism created the great education system and gave opportunity to working class and peasants. Capitalism and greed has effectively rolled back a lot of this. I don't think communism is the way to go at all but unbridled capitalism isn't very nice either. It's my opinion that the nouveau rich in hungary are lazy criminal shits who just want to squeeze the life out of the rest of the population and bring back the aristocratic way of life. The youth here are losing their ambition once they realize there are no opporunities without connections. That's why they leave the country as soon as possible. Communism did not create the current state of affairs. It's all Hungarian.
Let's get back to the American bashing, I was all up for that when I first read this article. Now I am not sure who to bash. How about the fool who wrote the article? "If so, doesn't that seem a little odd coming from a country that likes to get into wars in places most of its citizens don't even know exist?" What the fuck does that have to do with warning the staff? If you want to bash the war just do it, not make some lame connection like this. (Note: I feel I have to make a point that I am not pro-war)
"Us people" my dear, "Anonymous Bedwetter?" (President Bush!? Wow!:) Isn't it YOU PEOPLE who install puppets everywhere & call it "democracy & freedom?" You reinstalled the commies on us because you know they are whores and will sell us out like they always have. And, don't tell someone who was just raped & beat up that she looks like shit, please. Stop robbing us blind and we'll HAVE THE MEANS to fix the shitty, falling apart rump country
But Gadjo Dilo - Hungarians love their Commies!
How else can you interpret yesterday's result of the referendum? Hungarians wants everything for free and take no personal responsibility - just like the Good Old Kadar-time, where the State took care of you from the cradle to the grave, for free.
Viking,
you have obviously never dealt with the Hungarian health system nor do you likely pay taxes in Hungary. Something like 85% of the total expenditure for an employee's salary is in the form of payroll and personal tax. One would expect to get decent and complete medical coverage for this outlay, but no the government wanted a co-pay instead of reducing costs by removing waste and corruption. That's the problem. Oh and the service in hospitals and from many doctors can more or less be considered malpractice. You need to bribe your doctor to get proper tests and treatment. The governemnt is doing absolutely nothing to correct the fundamental flaws in the system. I can honestly tell you if the government cut taxes in half in exchange for citizens having to arrange private health coverage then aside from the pensioners a vast majority of Hungarians would be very happy.
Sorry Kurt - I am the wrong person to ask those questions to. I am regular patient since my life was saved in an Hungarian hospital 10 years ago.
I am the 5th highest user of prescribed pills at my HaziOrvos (he has around 1.500 patients). I pay(ed) 15-20.000 Ft every month for my pills with the nice box-fee they introduced also (which they will not take away).
I have Hungarian companies, which had before 15 employees, so I know a lot of how much tax everyone cost. That is one reason why we left that type of worker-intensive business. The real hard period started during the Fidesz-years 1998-2002, with the introduction of the minimum wage.
BUT I am originally a Swede and we have the highest taxes with a big bad public sector, so I am used to it. And I have got used to pay to get premium service and I can afford it.
I agree with you that lowering taxes and cutting the public sector is probably a good idea. I would like to see the "Slovak"-thing with a flat 19% tax implemented, but everything like that is dead in the water now for 5-10 years. There is NO political or public will to do that. This referendum has effectively killed those things. People, especially in the country-side, wants Kadar back.
Viking,
My apologies but I just directly know many Hungarians facing a lot of frustrations with the system, botched operations and the costs involved.
I actually do agree in principle with the idea of a co-pay to ensure patients really require medical attention but that is not the real problem now.
Yea and that is about the same experience people have in many countries with public health care. In Sweden we pay 3.000 Ft to visit the Doctor, but that does not give us better service.
One of the problems is that the Medical Profession is against any reforms that would make them work harder and in Hungary they have good connections to Fidesz.
The result of the referendum would though had been the same if the question had been to abolish the Motorway Tolls. Who wants to pay for those Romanian trucks, or even worse people from Budapest, driving fast in the Hungarian Countryside?
I can't wait until the fidesz party gets into power, they really seem to care about my pockets. Another hole firmly sewn by our good friend Orban. All hail our saviour!
Get back in line, Captain, and wait for your handout (if there's any left).
Get back in line, Captain, and wait for your handout (if there's any left).
Viking, referenda as we all know (don't we?) are as meaningless as Soviet-era elections were and serve basically the same purpose. POLITICS in general are and have always been at best entertainment for the unwashed masses, much like soccer, at worst obscene insults added to a long list of injuries. Hungarians DON'T love their apparatchiks, they just can't forget how much better they lived when they served a less efficient and ruthless empire.
